WHY doesn’t it matter?
Because, unfortunately, to waaaaayyy too many people IF you are accused, no matter who by, you are guilty. Case closed.
Richard Justice, judging by this morning’s blog, is unconvinced because Roger didn’t do and say what Richard thought he should have said and done when Richard thought he should have said and done it. And, unfortunately, seems like most everyone agrees with Richard.
You see, Roger has failed to explain the motives of his accuser. He knows the motives HOW?
Personally, I thought he handled himself very well in his interview with Mike Wallace. Roger’s critics all think he should have thrown himself in front of a pack of vicious attack dogs like Skip Bayless/Mike Lupica who ALREADY have decided that Clemens is guilty of the crimes of which he has been accused and PROVED to them that he couldn’t be guilty.
Oh, yes, crimes. He is accused of committing CRIMES. Purchasing controlled substances is a CRIME. Of course, he could have obtained them by a legal prescription, but then, of course, McNamee would have just conveniently omitted having seen the prescription label. And, of course, it just so happens that the dates given by McNamee just happen to fall outside the statute of limitations for prosecution.
Then again, Mitchell, Selig, Congress and a whole lot of members of the media are interested in PERsecution, not PROSecution.
As for me, I think it is telling that Roger’s attorney waited until his investigators had some facts before he filed a libel suit – to me, it indicates that he has some FACTS, and as I have said, libel suits by or against public figures in this country are pretty rare, as the probability of winning one is almost zero. And as for McNamee filing a libel suit against Roger for claiming that McNamee did not tell the truth, well, that ain’t a-goin nowheres, as it is pretty near impossible to ruin the reputation of a drug dealer/rapist.
As for the claim that McNamee would NEVAH lie, especially in front of the feds/under oath because he would be facing prosecution if he did – well, seems it sure didn’t stop Rafe Palmeiro or Barry Lamar, now, did it? As for the really idiotic question – well, why would McNamee tell the truth about one thing and lie about another – well, that is the best, the VERY best way to get a lie believed, is it not? It is simply preposterous to insist that a person proves he is always telling the truth if he relates ONE true fact.
So, let me ask all yall this -
suppose you child/wife/gf/friend/boss comes up to you and correctly and truthfully tells you the time and date and his/her weight. Does this mean you will now believe every single word out of his/her mouth in the future unquestioningly?
hmmmmmmmm indeed…
Oh yeah. before I forget – if the idea behind persecuting Clemens/Bonds is because of their heinous influence on poor unsuspecting high school and college kids and we simply MUST get roids out of the skoolz THINK of the children their parents had NO idea that no normal kid puts on 40 pounds of muscle in a few months – well, if you REALLY want roids gone, then TEST THE KIDS!!! It’s like duh. Surprise test the high skool kids, surprise test the college kids. Kick them out permanently if they test positive. That will put a heck of a lot better dent in steroid use than harassing Clemens et.al.
Kids don’t look at how Clemens is getting poked at now. They look at the examples of Clemens/Bonds, then look at their millions and think – whoa, if I use roids, I can be as good as those guys. Which, of course, is plain stupid. It’s talent, and you can’t roid-up talent, as Barry Lamar Himself could have said. But then again, teen age boys are not exactly reservoirs of good common sense.
Tags: Houston Astros, MLB
Clemens’ liberty is not at stake. His opponent is not the US government, but some shmoe representing that trainer guy. A disgreement over who is telling the truth. That means the “innocent until proven guilty” card no longer applies, and Roger Dodger’s predicament is fair game in court of public opinion. In this court, people have the right to call it the way they see it. So stop guilt tripping everyone because you are a Roger homer and can’t deal with the truth. Roger is entitled to shit, so shut up. And if Roger wants redeem his reputation, then it is on him to prove it. Pass a lie detector test, Roger. I dare ya.
walt,
no, clemens liberty is not at stake for the simple reason that the 16 FELONY CRIMES he is accused of committing – or are you pretending that the purchase and use of a controlled substance (anabolic steroids are exactly like morphine or cocaine as far as the law is concerned) – were committed before the statute of limitations was up.
and what do i mean? say you robbed a store 10 years ago (no weapon) and you are now discovered to be the robber. LEGALLY the cops/DA can’t do a thing about it because the statute of limitations are up.
therefore, LEGALLY, clemens can’t be prosecuted. very clever of mcnamee to make SURE that the last known crime was before the limit – this way, no one can demand to know why clemens isn’t being arrested.
it doesn’t change the fact that he is being accused of committing 16 felonies, no matter how you want to spin it into oh it is just bad behaviour.
would YOU want someone to come out in public and accuse you of, say, 16 rapes that all occured before the statute of limitations expired? of COURSE it has nothing to do with prosecution and it has everything to do with your reputation. you don’t want people to call you a rapist who got away with it and clemens doesn’t want to be called a felon who got away with it.
lie detector tests aren’t worth a bucket of warm spit. there is exactly ZERO evidence out there – and i mean ZERO scientific evidence out there – that they measure “lies” at all. they are used as tools of intimidation by law enforcement and there is a VERY good reason why they are not allowed as evidence in court.
lie detector tests have a high false negative and high false positive rate, in case you didn’t know. and by the way, go check out aldrich ames, who passed 3 of the tests, lying all the way…
as for being a roger homer,
- well, IF the accused person was a player i hate, say cal ripken, i would STILL demand a lot more proof than the word of a drug dealer and rapist who had the jackbooted heel of the feds across his throat when he gave testimony to them that can’t be proven OR disproven.
people have used the justification of the “court of public opinion” to hang, both literally and figuratively, millions of people without any proof except opinion. you ever hear of witch burnings? lynchings? people like you think it is perfectly OK to verbally lynch/hang someone because it is just “opinion”
what if roger can somehow PROVE that mcnamee is lying? he will still be guilty in the eyes of most, just like you.
and like some poor guy said some 20 years ago after he won his libel trial – now, where do i go to get my reputation back?
lisa
One guy who said that was Raymond Donovan, the former Secretary of Labor who was forced to resign in the mid 1980s after being accused defrauding the New York City Transit Authority of millions — he went through a trial and was quickly acquitted of all charges because the entire charge was a sham. But he had lost his job, his reputation, and many people think he’s guilty.
Personally, I don’t like Roger Clemens. But I do respect how hard he has worked and how well he has done, regardless of what drugs he did or didn’t take. I feel the same way about Barry Bonds.
My general assumption is that professional sports is a world unto itself, a jungle, and guys do what they have to do to get ahead. There are rules, and they should be enforced, but to the extent that they aren’t, the games go on anyway. If the players and owners are finally going to crack down on PEDs, or whatever, that’s fine. But in my mind, it doesn’t diminish the performances, any more than knowing that guys have always taken amphetamines, cocaine, drank, smoked, and ingested all forms of legal and illegal substances all through the history of all sports.
Call it cynical, if you want, but people will do a lot for fame and money. Always have, always will. The only way to slow it down is for everyone involved to uniformly work to enforce rules. Up to this point, the will to do so has not existed. So get over it and move on.
Well said, Steve. I’m all for Bonds and Clemens and whomever keeping their records and getting into the HoF, if they can get the votes. The thing that was disappointing to me is that Roger *seemed* to be lying – or hiding something – however you want to put it. I saw the interview, the press conference and heard the tape yesterday, and I couldn’t help note how his body language and his eyes were those of someone who is hiding something or lying. If he’s such a big man – like he tries to portray himself – he should have just owned up to it and took responsibility for what he’d done. Ironically, his desire to protect his “good” name might just be the thing that loses him the same. I never liked Clemens (except for his time in Houston) – he’s just another sell out to the stupid Yankees and their ridiculous 200 million payroll that is bad for baseball. (I should also add that the special “vip” treatment he received the last few years is also bad for baseball and is thoroughly disgusting). But until now I had always respected him.
Kudos to Andy Pettitte – he stood up against the tide and told the truth.
Roger – go join the “private sector” like the rest of America and stop whining about how poorly you’ve been treated by everyone. Please.
jdollas -
that’s interesting because i saw/heard it too and to me it looked like a guy who wants to say what he wants to say who was warned by his lawyer about a zillion times that he couldn’t say whatever he wanted, no matter how innocent it seemed, without legal problems.
IF – he committed the crimes and he wants to claim to be a “big man” then yes, he should own up.
but my own personal jury is saying right now that i don’t have enough evidence to judge and i have got a very VERY hard time taking the word of a lying, drug dealing rapist against roger’s.
like roger said – someone should be finding the person who supposedly sold roger the drugs he gave to mcnamee.
i want a smoking gun – like the one against tejada.
I saw the interview with Mike Wallace and watched Roger’s eyes as he looked Wallace in the eyes and told him that he did not take steroids, looking for any hint of falsehood there. I saw none. I don’t think Roger knowingly took steroids, and I agree with Lisa’s comments 100%.
I am amazed at some of this commentary. Whether he did or didn’t Lisa you seem blind to the fact that your attacking the trainer and his truthfulness in a similiar manner they are attacking Clemens.
You don’t know either man even a little bit and while I understand you wanting to give Clemens the benefit of the doubt he is acting like a classless asshole and tossing hisold friend under the bus.
The man has no money and a sick child which Clemens and his greedy paws certainly knows. The man idolizes the idiot pitcher and Clemens tapes his phone call and plays it in public. The trainer complied with federal authorities as per the law.
Whether Clemens used steroids or not(I think he did) the way he has handled himself and his utterly incoherent statements have diminished him as a man far worse than any steroid usage would have done.
DC,
the trainer got caught dealing drugs. he was in a WORLD of hurt with the feds. remember? and, in an incredible, unusual breach of rules, tell him his troubles will be decreased if he talks to the guy who is investigating a private, unconnected matter.
this bothers me a LOT. he then is supposedly told that he can be prosecuted if “he doesn’t tell the truth.”
hmmmmm
he makes statements that can NOT possibly be disproved, and he gives times that roger supposedly committed the crimes such that roger can not be arrested/prosecuted.
hmmmmmmmm
if you truly don’t think that law enforcement leans on people or elicits false confessions, i don’t guess you’ve dealt with them or watched enough forensic files.
now, i’m a bit confused about the tossing the old friend under the bus. seems to me that it is mcnamee who tossed clemens under the bus.
if you are talking about the phone conversation, mcnamee is the one who got in contact with clemens, supposedly about his son wanting to talk to clemens. but when roger calls him back, whoaaaa, mcnamee doesn’t tell roger, please call my son at this particular number. nope. in fact, mcnamee sounded as if he was wearing a wire. and clemens was VERY smart to have had his lawyer tape it.
because mcnamee immediately leaked the conversation to the media and made roger sound bad.
so, you think clemens should have done exactly WHAT?
you already think he is guilty and have made your decision. if YOU were falsely accused of committing 16 felonies, what would YOU have done different?
and lastly, if someone you thought was your friend, who you had trusted had told the feds and the world that you had committed 16 felonies, how would YOU feel? how would YOU react?
clemens and his greedy paws? say WHAT? if clemens had offered the man so much as a penny under the circumstances, it most certainly would have been considered bribery, surely you see that. even the mediots haven’t been suggesting that clemens should have talked about money.
and by the way “used steroids” is committing a felony. buying steroids without a legit prescription is a felony. you DO know that, right?
you DO understand clemens is being accused of CRIMES, right?
in an incredible, unusual breach of rules, tell him his troubles will be decreased if he talks to the guy who is investigating a private, unconnected matter.
this bothers me a LOT. he then is supposedly told that he can be prosecuted if
So are we to believe that McNamee made the whole thing up? Why? It would have to be a pretty incredible conspiracy on the part of the government to foment such an atrocity. I’m not a big fan of the government, but I don’t buy it. What possible reason could McNamee have for naming Clemens if he’s totally innocent? The only thing I can come up with is that the government wanted to make an example of Clemens for some unknown reason. But that makes utterly no sense. McNamee named Clemens because Clemens actually used steroids – that’s the only scenario that makes any sense at all.
DC,
part of the problem here is that you, for some reason, have decided that roger has committed 16 felonies for the simple reason that mcnamee said so. why you think his statement is gospel, i don’t get.
let’s stop talking about “using steroids” and say what it actually is, committing 16 felonies.
no one is “interested” in prosecuting clemens/pettitte/giambi for these crimes because THE STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS IS UP so they can’t.
there is no purpose for the feds to go to all the trouble to find out who just “used drugs” since it was all supposedly done at a time that the users CAN NOT BE PROSECUTED.
and getting back to the discussion, seeing as how you have decided that clemens committed the crimes, you insist at looking at everything through that lens.
you are simply wrong about clemens leaking the conversation to the media – mcnamees attorney SAID that he did that. and clemens had his attorney file the lawsuit AFTER mcnamee didn’t admit he lied to the feds. everyone was criticizing clemens for NOT suing if he was innocent as he said, and now he is and you have a problem with THAT. and after mcnamee’s lawyer leaked the event of the conversation to the media – describing clemens as “tearful” you really think clemens should not have had his attorneys play it?
and it is because you don’t think he has any right to defend himself. YOU say he’s a bad guy, he must be guilty, that he should “own up” to doing something he says he didn’t do.
mcnamee is not exactly this decent guy, you know. and he has a history of lying. you DO know he has said more than once that clemens never did drugs and that he never gave clemens drugs (abetting a felony)
and do check out this lovely article on yahoo about mcnamee lying to the cops about copulating with a woman who just happened to have GHB in her blood?
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-clemens-lawsuit&prov=ap&type=lgns
and by the way, it would have blown over immediately if clemens had said the usual crap about i’m sorry i made a mistake blahblahbah just like everyone else did. no one gives even the teeniest weeniest darn that miguel tejada did drugs and that no one INCLUDES astros fans. i seem to be like the only fan who DOES mind.
jdollas,
let’s first remember that mitchell works for the ONWERS and he is an OWNER his own self – besides being a board member of ESPN.
mcnamee told MITCHELL about clemens because he was in front of mitchell because the feds made him.
now, let’s think for a minute about the actual motives that the OWNERS had in getting the report in the first place – to make the players look as bad as possible and the owners look as innocent as possible.
why?
very simple. the owners want to break the players union as much as possible so the players will make less and the owners will make more. the way you break the union is to make them look as bad as possible to the public – cheating, greedy, no good felonious drug users. also, to turn the memebers of the union against each other. remember the united we stand, divided we fall? the players have used that against the owners for 35 years and the owners are lusting for revenge.
mitchell needed a bigger name than barry lamar, who is already out of baseball. so he had the feds lean on mcnamee, who is a guy who will lie. AND remember that unless mcnamee recants, no one can PROVE that he lied.
and if you don’t think that LE tries to make people say things that aren’t true, remember how nowitsky tried to make grimsley say he knew bonds used steroids? remember how the feds threatened grimsley’s family?
you should watch forensic files. they have more than a few interesting episodes on false confessions, they have MORE than a few interesting episodes on how people end up trying to please LE, giving them lies they think they want.
sure i think that it is possible that mcnamee told the truth. but i think it is just as possible that he didn’t.
remember, he was trying to get himself out of as much trouble as possible. it’s not like he was dale sin-free murphy, acting as a concerned citizen who just happened to report a law-breaker
Lisa,
If you think for even one second they are going to arrest these ballplayers and attempt to convict them of drug charges you are totally out to lunch. So much so that any rational conversation will be a waste of time.
why you think his statement is gospel, i don
Really Lisa your post #12 is a good as any FBI killed Kennedy conspiracy theory. Your looking for complex answers to save a rotten hero when he was always a turd to begin with. Your to good for this. In this case the simple is more than likely correct,he likely used.
What will it take for YOU to see Clemens used steroids?
DC,
let’s put it like this – i might could be young, but i am not STUPID. i always said that i believed that ken caminiti told the truth during his SI interview. he was a junkie – and he was trying to get clean at that time and he was in the i have to tell the truth/confess stage. he said then that most guys were using roids.
it was obviously perfectly acceptable to use roids in the 90s/early 00s – the owners liked the $$$ and since most guys did it, well, the frank thomases were in the mostly silent minority. even the great players like barry bonds saw which way the wind was blowing and decided they’d better get on the stuff. and i think there probably weren’t many who didn’t.
i hate saying it, but i wouldn’t be surprised if a significant number of astros used back then, too. the only guys who i am POSITIVE did NOT are lance berkman, mo ensberg and adam everett. and brad ausmus, i can’t forget him.
so i actually DO believe that most guys used. (and, by the way, i think that there were VERY few guys who didn’t do speed, but we won’t go there just now).
the question of exactly WHO used – well, that is a different question.
so, for me to believe accusations against a specific player – i want proof, such as tejada’s checks for drugs, made out to his dealer. i want positive tests. i want SOME corroborating evidence.
and when i listen to an accusation, i also “consider the source” so if, say, don mattingly or joe torre had said, i watched roger inject something and when i walked over to him and asked what it was, he said winstrol – and showed me the bottle. well then, THAT i would believe. they are 2 people with reputations as honorable men and unlike mcnamee, they wouldn’t have a reason to lie.
but you are asking me to take the word of a guy who is a drug dealer, a suspected rapist and a guy who is trying to save his OWN butt. so i very naturally have VERY deep suspiscions of a person like that.
and as for B-12, it was actually used as energy shots long before the steroid thing got started seriously. i don’t know whether or not there is actually any medical benefit to getting the shots, but the thing is that the athletes THINK there is and that is what makes all the difference.
feds don’t prosecute for drug use. that’s regular cops. and they bust tons of people for use – the prisons are jam packed with people inside for using drugs – not dealing, i mean buying or using. they could perfectly well prosecute ballplayers if they chose – as long as it was inside the statute of limitiations. of course, they’d rather bust poor, dark skinned people, but we won’t go there..
so it is not that i am convinced clemens is innocent of buying/using illegal drugs, it is that i am withholding judgement until i see more proof.
and i have NO problem with anyone trying to prove his innocence. especially if admitting guilt would make his life SIGNIFICANTLY easier. i mean, completely easier.
i forgot -
let me post this comment from john northey at baseballthinkfactory.org about clemens/mcnamee – i think he is exceptionally clear about the probablilty of clemens using at the times he is accused of doing so
“Y’know, after reading it I can easily see how McNamee could’ve injected Clemens with steroids and never told him about it. Same with other trainers and other athletes. The trainer makes all their money via the success of the guy they got. If that player slows down after using them the trainer will never get another job. So, what is a trainer (who hasn’t made millions yet) going to do? They would do anything to keep that job. For 1997 I could’ve seen Clemens doing anything to prove to Boston that they were wrong to say what they said (that he was washed up, getting old, a 10 game winner not a 20 game anymore, etc.). However, everything McNamee claims occurs in ’98 or later when the incentive for Clemens drops. Perhaps in ’99 his first year with the Yanks to get that WS ring he also had the incentive. The 300 wins, 4000 K’s could be incentives, but were they enough?
This is the issue we hit with Clemens vs McNamee. McNamee has a lot at stake to nail Clemens, but has no physical proof (receipts, etc). Clemens incentive to use steroids was probably highest in the 96/97 offseason (4 seasons of under 12 wins in a row, although he was very effective despite the low W total). The 98/99 offseason while having some incentive (wants to do well in NY) has a weakness in the fact he just won two pitching triple crowns (why use steroids if you are at the top of the game – Bonds using came after he saw others using them to get past him with no penalty).
If McNamee had been Clemens personal trainer for that 96/97 offseason then I could easily see Clemens being guilty as anything. If McNamee had any receipts or other solid proof Clemens bought steroids/HGH then I could see it. But the incentive for Clemens was minimal during his time with McNamee. If I was McNamee (or someone trying to catch Clemens in a lie) I’d be chasing down Clemens personal trainer(s) pre-98 to see if I could get one of them to testify. But from 1998 on I just have trouble seeing why Clemens would decide to start on drugs, and if he was always on them why he doesn’t have the paper trail that others have (Troy Glaus for example).”
so, for me to believe accusations against a specific player – i want proof
Fair enough, but the guy who injected him and supplied others who have said as such is pretty good evidence.
and as for B-12, it was actually used as energy shots long before the steroid thing got started seriously. i don
I don’t find the argument from baseballthinkfactory very compelling. I guess we’ll see how this plays itself out. Other than being a little of pop culture trivia it’s really pretty irrevelant whatever one thinks.
i understand perfectly that “B-12″ can be locker room code for steroids. the thing is that besides steroids, the guys really DO inject just the genuine, real vit B-12. remember when they found vials of it in tejada’s locker and analyzed it and it was really just vit B-12?
and i disagree about roger admitting using roids. look what happened to every single other guy who admitted using, apologised – it went away IMMEDIATELY. give me just one case where that is not true. his rep wouldn’t be damaged beyond repair in any way. cmon.
DENYING the report caused him far more trouble. not that he can PROVE he never used.
and his “friend” sure as heck didn’t “try to help him” good grief. you want friends who rat you out to the feds? with “friends” like that, who needs enemies?
and sorry, the word of a guy like mcnamee just does not carry much weight with me. i guess it does with you, what can i say…
But why? If “LE” is behind this – if “LE” bullied and intimidated McNamee into incriminating Clemens, that means “LE” wanted Clemens. Why? It’s not like we’re talking about Barry Bonds here, whom everyone seems to loathe. Clemens is pretty much universally worshiped, and despite his cockiness, he’s never been anything but a model citizen and great role model.
Of course, I fully admit that Clemens could be completely innocent. And I’m not judging him; I already said on this forum that I think he should be in the HoF – and I certainly don’t think he should go to jail. But it takes a belief in a hell of a lot of high-level conspiracies to explain why McNamee would suddenly “out” the guy whom he pretty much owes his life to – for no reason other than to get the heat off himself, and to explain why “LE” has such a desperate, unfathomable grudge against Clemens, again for no apparent reason.
I say no way.
Until I hear otherwise, I will follow Ockham’s Razor on this.
y’know, there’s a lot of light and heat around this topic now, but I’ll bet you ten years from now, or maybe sooner, the HOF voters will go back to their usual approach of voting for the people who were most dominant in their era. And when they do, all the votes will come in for big Mac, Sosa, Palmeiro, Clemens, Bonds and such. And of this fussing will drift away in a puff of smoke.
I wonder what PEDs they’ll be using then…
I wonder how all of the self rightous hypocrites out there would like it if they were accused of a felony by some law enforcement agency whose motives were shall we say less than pure? The star witness in this case is trying to stay out of prison. Don’t lose sight of that fact. The law enforcement personnel in this case are not movie stars on Law and Order. They are all trying to climb the federal ladder of success. Bringing down big name sports stars is a good way to get your name in lights so to speak.
LE routinely intimidate people to try to get them to roll over on their acqaintences in supposed criminal events. If you don’t believe that then you are living in the land of Oz. Intimidation is the law enforcement rule number one, and the feds are the top intimidators.
Believe it!!!!!!!!!!!
The events in question were not against the rules of baseball at the time were they? We the fans are to blame, we are the ones who wanted higher scoring games since most fans, as Lisa has stated before, don’t know the difference between a 20 to 19 and a 1 toto 0 game. You can trace this back to the DH ruling that ruined the game of baseball. The AL trying to match the NL in those days for having better league. Now everyone wants to watch a high scoring game and the athletes try to give us what we want. Sosa and Big Mac are credited with saving the game with their home run race, who in their right mind didn’t suspect something then,and also when BB blew through their numbers. It took decades for Maris to top Ruth by only one HR in ’61. It will probably be a while before it is done again without PED’s.
The drugs dont give them ability or talent, it prolongs the time they can perform with their talents.
I tend to digress and ramble on, just some of my opinions. I sure do wish the season would get started and we fans of the game can get back to baseball. Oh yeah, I am a ” gritty fan who watches the game the RIGHT way”. LOL
Go Astros!!!
Come on Spring Training
Okay, I’m trying not to take a position on this because it doesn’t matter too much to me. But I will observe that McNamee’s immunity is based on him telling th truth.
Now I hear Lisa’s points that he’s not trustworthy, could have been pressured, and so forth. But even if he was being pressured by The Man (and he probably was), he gave up Pettitte, and Andy confessed. So McNamee gave them a big name, and I’m sure that’s what they wanted. That gets him off the hook, because they got “value” for their grant of immunity to McNamee. He doesn’t have motivation to give a second big name. Sure, maybe he hates Clemens and has it in for him — I dunno. Whatever.
I totally understand that he *could* be lying. But I just don’t see the motivation for him, especially since if it is determined that he did lie about Clemens (or anything else), then the grant of immunity is off and he goes to jail.
So I reserve judgment until there is more evidence one way or another, and in any event, I don’t really care whether he did or didn’t take drugs, and whether he is or isn’t lying. It’s mildly entertaining, but it doesn’t change much in my mind, since Clemens is still one of the best pitchers ever and enough players were on juice that that’s the way the game was played in the 90s and early this decade.
But if you put a gun to my head and told me I had estimate the probability that Clemens or McNamee is lying, I’d go 65% Clemens is lying.
Yeah, I’m tired of talking about Clemens and steroids too.
Lisa – have you heard anything about plans to sign another starter? Seems like since they’ve already traded away all their chips, it’ll have to come from free agency. Going with Oswalt, Williams, Backe, Wandy and Sampson is a risky venture, indeed – esp. with Williams & Backe.
My guess is that since everyone has no freakin’ idea how this team is going to play, they’ll keep an eye out for a pitcher but probably won’t pull the trigger on much. They’ll wait and see how the team does in April and May. If it starts like the last three years, nothing will happen. But if the ‘Stros come together as a team and start bashing the ball, Oswalt pitches like an ace, and one or two of the other starters pitch respectably so the team is in the hunt, then in June and July, Drayton will give Ed the money to pull in a rent-a-pitcher for the stretch.
iand sorry, the word of a guy like mcnamee just does not carry much weight with me. i guess it does with you, what can i say
Yes, Justice is a pompous ass of below average intelligence, but he has a point. Roger is not responsible for explaining McManee
DC,
you MUST be kidding. clemens is just like mcnamee? because they trained together? so are you accusing clemens of being a drug dealer and rapist too? what about pettitte? he spent just as much time with mcnamee.
sorry, gotta disagree with you about the hall thing. you know, it just might could be that clemens doesn’t want the adjectives “criminal” “felon” drug-user” or “cheat” attached to his name and he wants it cleared. like i keep saying – if it was YOU who was falsely accused, wouldn’t YOU want to clear your name?????
i’m really not clear where you get the “bully mentality” thing from. he has never been called out by ANY teammate for that, like ever and when he was here in houston, he was exactly the opposite with the guys.
now the “pedestrian brain” part – we FINALLY agree on something. it was bound to happen.
jeff,
i never said that justice was pompous, an ass, or had below average intelligence. i said it is ridiculous for an accused person to have to clear his name by explaining his accuser’s motives.
mcnamee’s motives appear pretty clear to me – to kiss the butts of the feds so he can reduce his prison time. and any time novitsky is involved with anything i get real suspiscious.
how would radomski know what mcnamee does with his supplies? mcnamee had no records of what he did – i’m kind of interested that he seemed to have NO trouble recalling a date from 10 years ago. i have trouble remembering the date of things that happened 2 years ago, let alone 10.
pettitte did NOT corroborate manmee saying that he injeceted clemens. canseco did NOT corroborate mcnamee saying he injected clemens.
canseco said he had talked about steroids with clemens. clemens did NOT ask him for some, ask him for the name of a dealer or anything like that.
and that does not make clemens guilty of anything but curiosity. i’ve talked to people about drinking/being drunk but i’ve never drunk any alcohol. according to you, i MUST be lying. i’ve talked to people about doing crack, crank, heroine – and i’ve never done those neither – according to you, since i asked about it, why they used, how they used, what it felt like to them, i MUST also be a user.
sorry. it ain’t like that. modern people aren’t these prim little victorian misses who squeal in horror when unmentionables get mentioned. did you read ken caminitis interview where he talks about using? were you interested? wish you could have asked him a few questions? does this mean you are a user?
and clemens doesn’t have to document getting a vitamin, for goodness sake, and lidocaine isn’t exactly a controlled substance and i would bet it’s in the clubhouse.
OK, I said that about Justice, not you.
Mcnamee
“As for the claim that McNamee would NEVAH lie, especially in front of the feds/under oath because he would be facing prosecution if he did – well, seems it sure didn
jeff,
mcnamee was ALREADY going to prison for dealing drugs. he was told things would go better for him if he “cooperated” with novitsky and mitchell.
ahem.
oh yeah, and that he would be in (more) trouble “if he lied”
syringes, lidocaine, B-12 aren’t different from penicillin in terms of how tough it is to get them. they are not controlled substances like morphine or roids.
i got NO idea what mcnamee is/is not trained to do. i know ALL kinds of people who know how to do ALL kinds of things they not trained to do. this person i,um, heard of – ahem – is a medical assistant. they aren’t “trained” to give shots or IVs. but she does and she’s good at it.
as for why mcnamee and not someone else? because, i would guess, clemens who is NOT the brightest bulb in the draawer, might could have believed mcnamee’s lies about him being a PHD and calling himself “doctor.” and it might could be he didn’t want the Organization to know he was hurting. seems to me most guys not named jd drew lie/don’t tell about hurting.
therion,
i’m laughing my head off.
seems you don’t come around here real too much. i’m known as the biggest barry lamar apologist outside of san fran…
let me be more clear – barry lamar and rafe palmeiro were ACCUSED of committing perjury and the congressdogs went after them. so it is not like they are not gonna go after big name guys who they think committed perjury.
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